I did not meet Franklin but admired her work and scientific attitude. I did meet Hodgkin and learned a lot from her.

Well, there were, you know, several poses that was known for everybody, that is known for certain poses. And to me it was the three-quarter back pose. And it was a very difficult pose to do, to twist your body and to show the small waist and to show at the same time your wide shoulders, your back. And you also see the front and you see the abs and you see the calf and the thighs and all of those things. But it was a difficult pose to do. Very few bodybuilders could master it. I copied basically Reg Park, who was my idol and who won three times the Mr. Universe competition. And he was known for that pose in a kneeling position and in a standing position. And so because he was my idol, I was, you know, absolutely fanatic to copy his poses and then to kind of improve on that. And that's exactly what I did.

Most scientists do. Of course there are the classical figures. I might talk about Einstein a little bit, for example. Now, when I was in college, I was taking my second course in physics, I remember very well, and it had a chapter on relativity. And I took this relativity on a vacation in the mountains; my family went with me. And I remember very well sitting on a rock up in the hills there overlooking a stream, reading this relativity derivation. And it was just very exciting and interesting. It was a strange new world, relativity. I even thought I had found where Einstein made a mistake. And I went back for lunch, and I thought about it, came back. And I said, “No, he was right after all,” but it was still very exciting. To see a completely different kind of idea and world from what one’s normal intuition shows. Of course, Einstein was one of the great scientists; I’ve always admired him. I fortunately had a chance to talk with him and interact with him a little bit as well.

I spent time with Rauschenberg a lot during the combine period. I think just around the combine period. He had a big influence on me because he was very free and not full of philosophy and why I’m doing this and that. Some of the artists had this anchor of having to be — relate sometimes to Hegel and Kant and Nietzsche. It was sort of baggage that they brought to the table that was irrelevant. I mean it was in their head and it was relevant, but it was irrelevant to this moment of truth. So I found the artists that were kind of “dumb smart,” that were really smart but didn’t parade it, that were willing to take the risks and stuff.

It was desperate because of certain things, ingredients like my father being an alcoholic, my mother having too many babies in too short a time, no work available in Ireland, and even when my father did get a job he drank the wages. Then there was the harsh kind of schooling we had with school masters who ruled with a stick and then because of the overwhelming presence of the church, which imbued us with fear all the time. So it was fear, dampness, poverty, alcoholism, fear of the church, fear of the school masters, fear in general.